What's worse? Eating extra packs or eating food? Particularly after Foundation.

Just want to ask the Minimins community something that came up in Development last night. Not as a direct question but as an issue, which made me wonder...

Some are struggling with four packs - and need more (even if it's emotional hunger rather than physical) - and some (myself included) have had extra things like...milk in tea.

What's worse or are they equally destructive? I deliberately don't want to use the word bad as that sounds judgemental.

What do you think? Any long termers have views on this?

On the occasions that I have come out of abstinence, I haven't been able to have another pack instead.

Thanks and please let me know your thoughts.

Mrs L xxx

Although my lapses have been big ones, nothing so healthy as an extra pack here and there, my LLC has said that if you are going to stray it is better to have another pack, rather than real food.

My only wish is that I was strong enough to take that advice...

BTW - after your recent thread Mrs L., hoe do you feel re Development now? I return to class tomo, after a week away, and in my absence we have merged with another group. I dont think I am comfortable with that idea, and have even had nightmares about it!!

Sorry,

no practical advice here, but interested in the answer about food v food.

will watch with interest.

My LLC has talked about our group merging with another, at the moments it's a choce but I think soon we will have to go with it. I have worried new personalities could make or break us all, but know at some point I will have to move on without them anyway as we all at different levels.

Sez, Have you spoke to your LLC about your feelings. It's her job to support you through it

Sam

SoonBeSlim... It'sTrue! said:

Sorry,

no practical advice here, but interested in the answer about food v food.

will watch with interest.

My LLC has talked about our group merging with another, at the moments it's a choce but I think soon we will have to go with it. I have worried new personalities could make or break us all, but know at some point I will have to move on without them anyway as we all at different levels.

Sez, Have you spoke to your LLC about your feelings. It's her job to support you through it

Sam

Click to expand...

No, not yet , as have yet to join in the new group. Will see how I go tomo and then maybe make my choice! (Might be the push to CD I was looking for!!LOL)

Hi Sez (and everyone else!)

Thanks for replying.

Very interesting comments about food v.packs.

Last night was my second development class and we had EVEN MORE new people there but it was better. I didn't cry in the class, just afterwards but that's a whole other story!!

You have been on my mind since you posted last week but what with the move and starting building work, I just haven't had a chance to sit down and catch up.

I can't remember where you wrote it but you said something about coming out of abstinence and "failing" to finish another diet. I just wanted to SHOUT but Sez, you have lost 5 stone!! If that's failure, I'll take it!! I think there was a lot of perfectionist/critical parent going on for you at that moment!

Anyway, I think Development is the business, I really do. Foundation is prescriptive; we have a fantastic counsellor who followed the Green Book so it was structured yet lots of time to work through stuff.

I am finding Development much, much, much more helpful - same counsellor. There are women who are there for the long haul (one of our group has lost 10 stone, most of the others seem to be at your weight loss ie 5 stones). For me, just to have access to (ie face to face contact) these women who are further ahead (rather than my lovely blogging chums and minimins) adds a whole new dimension.

There is more talk of coming out of abstinence - well, there was last night so it might be for you. I am going to ask the others (AJ, Goombagirl, Lesley, Cerulean, etc) how Development was/is for them.

Anyway, I am going to write about Development 2 (ie session 2) in my blog.

Let me know how you are doing.

Big kiss.

Mrs L xxxxxxxxx

Our LLC always told us it was better to have an extra pack as at least then we were lesslikely to come out of ketosis

For me, I could still lose 2lb or 3lb a week if I replace a pack with a high protein low carb meal but it would still be costing me £66 a week to do so. For that cost I am going to get through it as quickly as I can and that means sticking to the programme rigidly.

If I cheat I am only cheating myself and it will end up costing me more cash in the long term, I know if I stick to it I will get to my goal rapidly compared to other diets.

My advice - just put food out of your mind, stick to the packs and you are guaranteed to lose loads and to look and feel much better.

I'm in week 16 and I've probably had 3 or 4 days where I've had either 1 or 2 extra packs.
When I was on a major biz trip overseas, and couldn't always rely on practicalities of shakes/soups I probably had more bars - but within the 4 packs a day, even though you're not meant to have more than 1.

After having my 6 packs a day meltdown last Sat and Sun, when I spoke to my LLC about this on Monday she said 6 packs would take you out of ketosis. I don't think they did though

I have to say though, whilst I've beaten myself up massively on the days when I've had extra packs - really seeing it as bingeing behaviour - if I'd reached for real food instead I absolutely know that would've been the worst thing I could've done. For me - abstinence is about not having any real food, and I really feel that I have no option but to stay abstinent completely.
Some people have been amazing at getting over any planned or unplanned real food moments, I just don't think I'm able to do that!!

After I walked the Samaria Gorge last week I cheated slightly.

I woke up at 5 am and had 2 shakes. Then I got the bus to where the gorge walk starts and had a bar at 7.30 am. I then had nothing all day until about 8pm (I walked about 20 k in total over very rough terrain) then I got home and had a chocolate and a bar. So I had 5 inside 18 hours - but due to flights and time adjustments over the next 48 hours I spaced my packs out and got myself back on track. After all - what if I had eaten all 4 packs when I got home at 8pm and then woken up in the morning and had a pack? I'm not saying that we should try and cheat the packs like this all the time, but I do think that we shouldn't be quite so fanatical about spacing them out.

Despite the almost religious way in which LL publicity seems to pooh pooh exercise in relation to weight loss (they had yet another dig at it in this month's issue of the magazine), I have a feeling that 2000 calories worth of activity in a day also justified my actions

And as for their attitudes to exercise, it's one of the few things I find annoying about LL. You just need to find the right motivation to do enough exercise to lose significant weight quickly. I lost 3 stone in 3 months once when I fancied my tennis coach! I was eating Macdonalds and drinking beer every night as well - so there LL! (It's true!)

The anti-food argument

Almost forgot! I should really do a post on this!

My counsellor is away for a month and I had a chat with her the other day about the fact that I am due to have surgery under general anaesthetic and what should I do if the op date crops up whilst she's away. She advised me to eat a non-trigger protein to take me out of ketosis for two to three days before the op (she's a very experienced LLC) - so people who nibble on protein might be chancing it rather more than they think. I told her that I didn't want to break ketosis so I would schedule my op for when I am in management.

I was with the same people during development as with foundation. I moved on to Management before they did, so that was when I had to meet new people other than members of my group.

It does take take to get to know the different personalities but is very rewarding to hear other members talk about their management experiences. I know when I first joined the group I had lots of questions to ask. Now, I am being asked the questions!

We usually have about 20 minutes while our LLC is organising the packs for everyone, and that's when we often have frank discussions about all sorts of matters and I sometimes think that all that's missing is a couple of bottles of good wine and a bowl of nibbles!

Thanks so much for more feedback. I asked the question - not so much because I was having an internal debate and contemplating a pack binge v a food binge - but because of comments made in Development and I was curious.

Someone also said that by eating two bars together (which I haven't done) took them out of ketosis, which amazed me. I have had two packs together due to tiredness and genuine hunger.

Exercise also came up and lots of people in Development have stepped up their activities. There was general consensus that exercise HAD slowed their weightloss BUT NOT inchloss! Of course, muscle weighs more than fat so that is to be expected.

Our LLC has said that exercise is a must IF you want to continue to lose weight and/or keep the weight off.

I have to be honest and say that I simply did not have the energy to do lots of exercise on top of the diet during Foundation (beyond loads of walking) but recognise that this has to change so have got out my bike and am contemplating joining a gym.

Thanks so much for the comments; really interesting and helpful.

Mrs Lxxxx

I dont know if this is relevant but the week before last I had a very poor weight loss , just 1/2 a pound and it followed a week when i couldnt stop having a pick at little bits of protein. I am not talking large amounts here the worst misdemeanor was about a matchbox size piece of edam, sometimes a slice of lean thin ham, but it really was a slippery slope. I started by nibbling a bar in addition to the 4 food packs , this then led to wanteing to eat between paks all the time , it was ridiculous and got totally out of hand.
I knew I was losing the plot and playing with fire also the edam gave me nightmares that night in to the bargain!
Now it may have been just coincidence but I have the most shakey nibbly out of control week then a really poor weight lost? I dont think so, definately the food and extra packs. I think I went out of Ketosis, becuase my sticks were coming out buff, I kidded myself that it was just a diluted result because I was drinking a lot, but I think I slipped out of K, which is strange because on holiday when I ate chicken or fish with green leaves and dropped a pack I still lost 3lbs and never came out of Ketosis.
I stuck to it 100 % this week and lost 4and a half so , I just think if you eat you are more likely to have an adverse effect as you really dont know whats in some foods today, for instance the ham I cheated on was full of salt and other chemicals to make it look pink and plump etc , and edam well I dont think I will ever eat it again ! Sorry its a bit of a ramble but its a very interested subject you brought up.
X HCW

Thanks, everyone; more food for thought! Ha ha.

Cerulean - good luck with the op'. I'll email you separately.

HCW - I really was very interested to see your experience.

Take care and have a good (abstinent - if you are on packs) weekend.

Mrs L xxxxxxxxxxxx